1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:10,000
The majority conclusion is that these things are real and under intelligent control.

2
00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:18,000
None of the evidence that I have examined would indicate any proof at all that we are being

3
00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:20,000
visited by extraterrestrials.

4
00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:26,000
Those are the voices of this country's two leading specialists on unidentified flying

5
00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:27,000
objects.

6
00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:33,000
Today's spectrum 95 probes the controversy and mystery surrounding the flying saucer

7
00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:42,000
cloud.

8
00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:48,000
This is Elm Offit KPRZ News reporting on a controversy heard from outside barbershops

9
00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:50,000
all the way to the halls of Congress.

10
00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:53,000
Is there such a thing as a flying saucer?

11
00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:58,000
In a moment you'll hear the actual voices of people describing those they think they've

12
00:00:58,000 --> 00:00:59,000
seen.

13
00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:05,000
But first this message.

14
00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:09,000
Some authorities claim sections of the Bible refer to UFOs.

15
00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:14,000
Most agree the history of flying saucers date back 200 years.

16
00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:18,000
During World War II they were around but called proof fighters.

17
00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:22,000
But no serious investigation began until the things got a name.

18
00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:29,000
A private pilot in Nevada named Kenneth Arnold in 1947 saw more than seven desks flying

19
00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:30,000
some distance from his plane.

20
00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:32,000
He was asked to describe them.

21
00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:36,000
He said they looked like saucers and the name stuck.

22
00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:39,000
The Air Force started its investigation of flying saucers.

23
00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:44,000
These things were generally laughed off as pigments of somebody's imagination until

24
00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:47,000
the Washington flap in 1952.

25
00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:52,000
The information officer for the Air Force's investigation of UFOs was Al Chop.

26
00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:57,000
He lives near Houston today and is deputy public affairs officer for the manned spacecraft

27
00:01:57,000 --> 00:01:58,000
center.

28
00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:01,000
He describes what happened in Washington that night.

29
00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:05,000
Well there had been sightings made from the ground.

30
00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:09,000
People seeing strange lights in the sky.

31
00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:15,000
There had been a radar observation that happened on a Saturday night.

32
00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:20,000
And it was carried in the papers throughout the country the next day.

33
00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:23,000
The reports of the sightings.

34
00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:26,000
And that didn't cause too much of a stir.

35
00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:30,000
However the following Saturday night the same thing happened.

36
00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:37,000
The ground radar at Washington International was picking up UFO returns.

37
00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:45,000
People were reporting eyewitness sightings of strange lights in the sky.

38
00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:52,000
And the press having gone through this thing the week before were better prepared and they

39
00:02:52,000 --> 00:03:01,000
were down at the gate at the Washington International Airport and were asking for answers to their

40
00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:05,000
questions on what these things were that were being picked up by radar.

41
00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:09,000
Somehow they got the word that they were being picked up by radar and so they called me at

42
00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:16,000
home and I went on down there to see if we could answer some of the questions.

43
00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:21,000
And when I got down there why Life Magazine was there and a few other publications some

44
00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:25,000
of the local newspapers.

45
00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:33,000
And we did ask the Air Defense Command to send up a group of flight of interceptors.

46
00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:35,000
They did send up a flight.

47
00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:42,000
The flight failed to see anything although we were getting the target returns on the ground

48
00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:46,000
and trying to direct them to the targets.

49
00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:51,000
They failed to report that they saw anything.

50
00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:58,000
And subsequently they went back to the Castle Delaware where they were based.

51
00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:11,000
The majority conclusion is that these things are real and under intelligent control.

52
00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:20,000
None of the evidence that I have examined would indicate any proof at all that we are being visited by extra stress fields.

53
00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:26,000
Those are the voices of this country's two leading specialists on unidentified flying objects.

54
00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:41,000
Today's spectrum 95 proves the controversy and mystery surrounding the flying saucer cloud.

55
00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:49,000
This is Al Moffat KPRC News reporting on a controversy heard from outside barbershops all the way to the halls of Congress.

56
00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:52,000
Is there such a thing as a flying saucer?

57
00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:57,000
In a moment you'll hear the actual voices of people describing those they think they've seen.

58
00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:04,000
But first this message.

59
00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:08,000
Some authorities claim sections of the Bible refer to UFOs.

60
00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:13,000
Most agree the history of flying saucers date back 200 years.

61
00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:17,000
During World War II they were around but called proof fighters.

62
00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:21,000
But no serious investigation began until the things got a name.

63
00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:29,000
A private pilot in Nevada named Kenneth Arnold in 1947 saw more than seven desks flying some distance from his plane.

64
00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:31,000
He was asked to describe them.

65
00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:35,000
He said they looked like saucers and the name stuck.

66
00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:38,000
The Air Force started its investigation of flying saucers.

67
00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:46,000
These things were generally laughed off as figments of somebody's imagination until the Washington flap in 1952.

68
00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:51,000
The information officer for the Air Force's investigation of UFOs was Al Chomp.

69
00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:57,000
He lives near Houston today and is deputy public affairs officer for the manned spacecraft center.

70
00:05:57,000 --> 00:06:00,000
He describes what happened in Washington that night.

71
00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:04,000
Well there had been sightings made from the ground.

72
00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:08,000
People seeing strange lights in the sky.

73
00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:14,000
There had been a radar observation that happened on a Saturday night.

74
00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:19,000
And it was carried in the papers throughout the country the next day.

75
00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:22,000
The reports of the sightings.

76
00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:25,000
And that didn't cause too much of a stir.

77
00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:29,000
However the following Saturday night the same thing happened.

78
00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:36,000
The ground radar at Washington International was picking up UFO returns.

79
00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:44,000
People were reporting eyewitness sightings of strange lights in the sky.

80
00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:55,000
And the press having gone through this thing the week before were better prepared and they were down at the gate at the Washington International Airport.

81
00:06:56,000 --> 00:07:04,000
We're asking for answers to their questions on what these things were that were being picked up by radar.

82
00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:15,000
Somehow they got the word that they were being picked up by radar and so they called me at home and I went on down there to see if we couldn't answer some of the questions.

83
00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:24,000
And when I got down there why Life Magazine was there and a few other publications some of the local newspapers.

84
00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:31,000
And we did ask the Air Defense Command to send up a group of flight interceptors.

85
00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:33,000
They did send up a flight.

86
00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:45,000
The flight failed to see anything although we were getting the target returns on the ground and trying to direct them to the targets.

87
00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:56,000
They failed to report that they saw anything and subsequently they went back to Newcastle, Delaware where they were based.

88
00:07:56,000 --> 00:08:05,000
And along about two or three in the morning we asked for another flight because we were still getting these returns.

89
00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:17,000
And they sent up another flight and this time one of the pilots reported that he did see a group of lights that we were trying to direct him to a group of targets.

90
00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:29,000
And he flew towards them and obviously from his report then they appeared to be all around him which he reported to us.

91
00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:45,000
And then they moved off according to the ground radar and according to his report he said they're going away and he then returned to the base and that's about the gist of what happened in Washington that night.

92
00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:59,000
Those UFOs were high in the sky but some were reported from other parts of the country more down to earth such as the UFO Mrs. Paul Trent of McMenville, Oregon said she saw in the early 50s.

93
00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:05,000
And I have a look up and I see this fan and I ran into the house and tell him about it.

94
00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:11,000
He went one way after a camera and I went the other way after a camera and between the both of us we found it.

95
00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:13,000
Can you tell us what it looked like?

96
00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:20,000
Well about the best thing I could say would be it's about the size of a parachute without any strings or anything like that.

97
00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:23,000
It was all flat on the bottom and it was still in red color.

98
00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:28,000
It was about the one hand red but there was no smoke and no noise anyone wants.

99
00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:30,000
How close to the ground was the air line?

100
00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:37,000
Well it was just above the Mexican flight wires away and I just, you know, the distance is something I just don't know.

101
00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:44,000
It's been covered for a while, you know, just like that and just the picture and right just the feeling just the picture.

102
00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:52,000
He rounded the film to re-roll it, you know, to take another one and as soon as he took it he turned and just took all very fast.

103
00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:58,000
And the report of Alfred Ernst, a Minnesota farmer of an object that landed.

104
00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:05,000
It was hard to look at. I suppose about the size of a washing machine top, I mean, one of these washing machines.

105
00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:10,000
Not a top but I mean the machine parts that come apart of it.

106
00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:16,000
So I suppose it could be all three seats to go around.

107
00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:21,000
It was easier to look at. It was started right.

108
00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:31,000
In Dickinson, North Dakota, several years ago a UFO skipped around over a drive-in till.

109
00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:36,000
That sighting had a whole crowd of witnesses. The voice of Randall Young.

110
00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:44,000
My wife and I were at the Dickinson drive-in and it was a clear night. A lot of stores were out.

111
00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:52,000
And the wife called my attention to one star in particular which was back of the screen away.

112
00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:56,000
Then asked me to watch it for a few seconds, which I did.

113
00:10:56,000 --> 00:11:03,000
And this star moved, what appeared to be a star, moved back and forth five ways, several times.

114
00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:13,000
And then it traveled slowly towards the center of the theater there and stopped approximately over the top of the...

115
00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:20,000
...drive of the theater. And here again it made several more sideways movements.

116
00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:29,000
And about that time I figured it wasn't an airplane because it was just a white light something similar to a star.

117
00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:39,000
And when it got directly over the theater, I got out of the car and looked at the thing and it seemed to be an oval flat shape.

118
00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:49,000
And when it got over the theater you could make out some type of outline of it as a height. I don't know, just exactly.

119
00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:52,000
About what size did it appear to you then?

120
00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:59,000
It was probably, I'd say about the size of a dishpan or so.

121
00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:06,000
It's common for a sighting to spark a chain of other accounts. Many of them vary widely from the original.

122
00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:09,000
Listen to this housewife's account and make your own judgment.

123
00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:16,000
We were up on the second floor and I looked out the kitchen window and I saw this thing hovering near the bigamson water fountain.

124
00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:26,000
And it glowed a yellowish orange. At first I thought it was the moon, but I've never seen a perfectly squared one quarter of a moon.

125
00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:31,000
I took another look and I thought, well I better get my husband up because it was...

126
00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:37,000
So by the time I decided to leave the window to go get him out, the thing started to change shape.

127
00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:46,000
And if it changed shape, it just get through in rockets and the smoke of an orange yellow billowed from the bottom of this thing.

128
00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:50,000
And then it just moved off and it needs to redirect.

129
00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:59,000
An account of that north Dakota flap is told by Airman Don Gabauer, who is in the control tower of Menott Air Force Base when reports began.

130
00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:06,000
I was working for the midnight shift and this person called in and said they thought it was going to go down.

131
00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:15,000
Said they saw some bright lights in the air and then they spotted it going down and then further down it got that brighter light start.

132
00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:27,000
And so we took a report on that to begin with and then about 30 minutes later we got a call from the main mobile unit from the Air Force Base that guards an infrastructure out there.

133
00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:37,000
Well they said they saw the same thing but it went down and it came straight down from, they figured about 20,000 feet.

134
00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:46,000
Came down to about 500 feet above the ground and then they said it shot east of their heading towards Menott.

135
00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:48,000
I don't know what the town was down there.

136
00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:56,000
But anyway, it went straight, I figure it went down and straight across for about 5-10 minutes.

137
00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:59,000
Then it went back up and headed back west again.

138
00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:02,000
Now this couldn't possibly have been a plane?

139
00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:10,000
No, it wasn't because I checked Kraft Con with their radar from just covering right around 500 miles of the area around here.

140
00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:15,000
And they didn't have nothing except for B-52 in the air and that was our own B-52.

141
00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:29,000
In 1956 a group of men with more than a passing interest in flying saucers formed a private non-profit organization which they called the National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomena, NICAP.

142
00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:35,000
From its start this organization has been headed by a retired marine pilot, Major Donald Keyhole.

143
00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:41,000
He and his co-workers and some 5,000 volunteers conduct their own investigations of sightings.

144
00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:48,000
Keyhole has been, from the start, very critical of Air Force investigations and what he calls the withholding of facts.

145
00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:54,000
Recently Keyhole called a news conference in Washington to say these things are from outer space.

146
00:14:54,000 --> 00:15:02,000
He cited many of what he termed prime examples, such as what happened in Exeter, New Hampshire last year.

147
00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:08,000
Recently, and they actually changed up in New Hampshire and probably most of you are familiar with that,

148
00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:14,000
the Air Force did publish an answer and later retracted it.

149
00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:24,000
Now for those of you who may not be familiar, this was a report by two veteran policemen of Exeter, New Hampshire and a teen agro, about 19 years old,

150
00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:30,000
who first saw this device and went to the police, they went out to the scene and, uh, skeptical,

151
00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:34,000
and when they got there they found exactly what he had described.

152
00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:39,000
The very large objects have been close to the ground with light splashing in sequence,

153
00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:45,000
uh, creating such a binding there that it lit up the ground for about 300 feet.

154
00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:52,000
It even caused animals in nearby buildings which couldn't see this object to get upset,

155
00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:55,000
horses kicking themselves and running and so on.

156
00:15:55,000 --> 00:16:02,000
Now this was made, uh, we made this report public and it was picked up by John Fore of Sanity Reviews Literature,

157
00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:05,000
and later published in ROOT.

158
00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:13,000
And somehow that had more effect than any group of sightings that we put out in the last five years,

159
00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:18,000
probably because of his prestige and the fact that he didn't have any axe to grind.

160
00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:26,000
He really went up there and took interviews with all of the witnesses and came back and said there seems to be no doubt that this thing was there in the creel.

161
00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:33,000
The Air Force at first said that this was a mistake caused by low flying aircraft,

162
00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:39,000
and the police officers were very much incensed by being called incompetent.

163
00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:43,000
They stated, well, this was wrong. They were not low flying aircrafts.

164
00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:46,000
This was definitely an unidentified flying object.

165
00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:52,000
The same thing happened in another case that very same night, which is not so well known down in Texas.

166
00:16:52,000 --> 00:17:03,000
On the night of September 3rd, two deputy sheriffs saw a plane drop into the sky and they parked their cruiser with a light song into the front of the highway to watch it.

167
00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:09,000
They were Brasoria County Chief Deputy Billy McCoy and Deputy Sheriff Robert Goode, both of Angleton.

168
00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:13,000
We asked Chief Deputy McCoy to describe the encounter.

169
00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:26,000
As we were leaving Dailin, I noticed all over on the right-hand side of the highway there going towards West Columbia,

170
00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:33,000
I noticed a bright purple light over there that looked like it was right on the horizon.

171
00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:40,000
We were talking about various things, and I called this light to make good attention,

172
00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:44,000
knowing that he was real prepared for that area over there.

173
00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:52,000
He said, well, there's probably a light over Pumping Station or a light over to a red light that's going to put quite a few little mercury vapor lights in.

174
00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:58,000
I said, well, it just looked too purple to be a mercury vapor light to me.

175
00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:04,000
We continued driving, didn't stop at that time, and I kept watching the light.

176
00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:17,000
As we traveled down the highway, there appeared to be a blue light that seemed to appear right out of this purple light.

177
00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:23,000
We were just almost parallel with the light.

178
00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:30,000
As we drove, the blue light seemed to move further over to the right.

179
00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:38,000
We pulled over right-hand side of the road and stopped, and I got out and looked at the light briefly.

180
00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:44,000
The blue light had moved a good ways from the purple light at this time.

181
00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:50,000
We made a U-turn there and stopped on the other side of the highway and got out and looked at these lights through the darkness.

182
00:18:50,000 --> 00:19:01,000
At this time, the light seemed to float up in the air just a very few degrees above the horizon and just hanging suspended there.

183
00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:09,000
So we got back in the car to drive back towards Damon, on the tape, one of the back roads to go over towards the seminar.

184
00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:15,000
We were just about to get close to it, and we had driven, I guess, about a half a mile back towards Damon.

185
00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:19,000
We almost stopped again. We didn't pull off the highway.

186
00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:25,000
We were just barely creeping. There was no traffic on the highway, and the dude had his window down on his side,

187
00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:33,000
and he observed the light again with the doctor, and the same thing would still be in the same position as it were.

188
00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:40,000
So he laid the binoculars down and said, Would you watch it? I'll drive on back that way.

189
00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:48,000
And just as we started up, he said that although the light is still there, and I said, Man, they're not there. They're right here on us.

190
00:19:48,000 --> 00:20:01,000
Well, at the front, the object had moved just in a blink of an eye. It seemed like where they were to ride beside the highway.

191
00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:07,000
The purple light was illuminating the inside of a troll car, ground all around us.

192
00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:15,000
And here this thing was just about as little as I could watch it any more than a hundred and hundred and fifty feet ahead.

193
00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:20,000
It was right at the side of the highway, completely motionless.

194
00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:27,000
There was a bright almost full of almost directly overhead.

195
00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:35,000
The moon illuminated the object. We could see the outline very distinctly.

196
00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:42,000
We could see the shadow on the ground underneath it, and my gosh, it looked like a football field.

197
00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:52,000
The flying saucer controversy raged anew last month when hundreds of people around Hillsdale, Michigan

198
00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:58,000
saw a series of strange objects or things. The county sure of there said this.

199
00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:04,000
The bright light, the blueish green light, and so on, a maneuvered bill of eight from side to side, up and down.

200
00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:15,000
And the saucer light shaped to it. Mr. Manners came in and settled off the farm and observed this object moved down into the swamp area.

201
00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:22,000
At the same time, we had six other cars out there and a University of Michigan professor.

202
00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:29,000
They also observed the same thing, and everybody described the thing as the same. No stone to the darn things at all.

203
00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:31,000
Do you have any ideas of what they might be?

204
00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:35,000
I wish I did. I've had more phone calls here this morning, you take a stick at.

205
00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:40,000
I'm going to put a call into the defense office in Washington and see if they can come up with some answers for me.

206
00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:45,000
I'm going to have to call the government on this. We've got a lot of people who have seen this,

207
00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:49,000
and there were 50 people who have seen it at different times, different intervals.

208
00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:51,000
Everybody described the thing the same way.

209
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:55,000
Do you think sherrithese might be visitors from outer space?

210
00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:59,000
I don't even want to guess at this. I don't believe it yet, but I can't doubt my myth.

211
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:04,000
According to one of my officers this morning, he said, Sherrith, I've seen it, but I still don't believe it.

212
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:08,000
A co-edit at the University of Hillsdale saw the thing and described it like this.

213
00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:13,000
Last night around 11.30 we'd been watching the storm that was taking place here.

214
00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:20,000
We looked out our second floor, dorm window, and saw what appeared to be a house almost in the middle of the Arb.

215
00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:27,000
But we realized there wasn't a house there, so we kept watching it, and it had a yellow glow and the lights were fluctuating.

216
00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:33,000
And we watched it for a while. It was hovering, or seemed to be, because the lights were fluctuating and almost going around.

217
00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:40,000
And so we caused a civil defense because we'd been asked to call and give a direction in a time, and he called the police.

218
00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:50,000
And as they drove up the Arb road, their red lights bothered whatever we were seeing, because it moved up and down into the right and left,

219
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:53,000
and the lights fluctuated even more.

220
00:22:53,000 --> 00:23:02,000
And then they came back down the road, and the civil defenseman drove around the back of our dorm, and his lights shone across the Arb.

221
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:10,000
And this also bothered it because it became very bright, and then it became very dim, and it started to move back across the horizon.

222
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:16,000
So we kept watching it, and the civil defenseman came up to our room to watch it, and he watched it for about a half an hour,

223
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:20,000
and he said it was, he would say it was definitely a UFO.

224
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:27,000
That civil defense director is William Van Horn. His report is considered by NICAP one of the most authoritative ever received.

225
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:36,000
Appeared out, looked out the open window. Here the UFO was approximately a thousand to fifteen hundred yards from us.

226
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:44,000
I observed this with binoculars. To the right was a red light, and to the left was a white light.

227
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:54,000
A red light at the time that I first observed it was a dim orange in color, and the white light was a quite dim white.

228
00:23:54,000 --> 00:24:05,000
The beacon from the airport sweeping over the area was coming around there, and the object seemed to get within a certain distance of the bottom portion of the beacon,

229
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:12,000
an array of light, and became stationary. It appeared as if it were attempting to avoid this light from the beacon.

230
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:21,000
It would then remain there for just a few moments, and then start its descent back down, and as it were coming back down to the ground, approaching the ground,

231
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:35,000
the lights would become dim. This, in essence, is what we observed at that time, Tony, and through the binoculars I estimated the distance between the two lights to be approximately twenty to twenty-five feet.

232
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:43,000
The Air Force's chief UFO investigator is a Northwestern University Astrophysics professor named Jay Allen Heineck.

233
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:49,000
He went to Hellstead, investigated, and reported the citizens had seen swamp gas.

234
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:58,000
Whether Heineck was right or not, there are sure to be many co-eds and citizens of Hillsdale who'll remember that incident the rest of their lives.

235
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:01,000
For instance, Madeleine English, do you believe in UFOs?

236
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:09,000
About one o'clock I was looking out the window, and I saw a white glowing object with red lights, and it wasn't an airplane.

237
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:11,000
Yes, I believe in UFOs.

238
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:13,000
Joe Wilson, were you frightened?

239
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:15,000
Of course I was frightened. Wouldn't you be?

240
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:17,000
I'm not sure.

241
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:24,000
Well, when you see something strange out your window, especially out of girl's dorm window, and lights, and you don't know what they are, you watch for two hours, you're frightened.

242
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:31,000
Music

243
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:37,000
You've heard a series of UFO sightings that have been reported. Confused? If so, you're not alone.

244
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:43,000
In the next section of Spectrum 95, we try to get an answer to the simple question, what is it?

245
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:48,000
We've subtitled it, would you believe swamp gas? But now let's pause for the news.

246
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:52,000
Music

247
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:58,000
Spectrum 95. Part 2 of the Flying Sorcerer Flap, what is it?

248
00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:04,000
Music

249
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:17,000
The question, what is it? Seems simple on the surface. But with unidentified flying objects, it's complicated by the fact that there are no materials ever taken from a UFO, only reports of eyewitnesses.

250
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:23,000
The director of NICAP, Major Donald Kehoe, has little doubt what these things are. Here's his opinion.

251
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:32,000
Now these have been evaluated, these sightings have been evaluated by our staff, by scientists, engineers, and their various fields.

252
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:38,000
The majority conclusion is that these things are real and under intelligent control.

253
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:53,000
Now in that group, which has reached that conclusion, there is another group, and it's the majority of that one, which believes that these things must be extraterrestrial because they are so far superior to anything we have.

254
00:26:53,000 --> 00:27:04,000
We have to base this on absolutely tracked speeds by radar, visual tracking, and combinations.

255
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:17,000
Now either all of these witnesses, every one of them, all of the thousands of witnesses here and abroad are absolutely wrong, honestly wrong, but they're wrong.

256
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:26,000
They're unable to distinguish what they see in the sky, I'm talking about pilots now. They cannot read radar scopes as well as they should.

257
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:35,000
They can't track things with the semi-theodolites or modern tracking devices. They make mistakes. All of them are wrong.

258
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:44,000
Not one single man is right or else these things are real, and there is secrecy and the facts for being withheld.

259
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:54,000
Flying saucers arouse so much public interest, there are several organizations established, and many salaries paid to find out what they are or just to talk about them.

260
00:27:54,000 --> 00:28:04,000
Another who makes his living from flying saucers is the editor of a magazine called Flying Saucer News, published in California. James Mosley tells his opinion.

261
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:14,000
These things are able to make right angle turns, they make no noise, such as our jets make, and they travel with speeds which are incredible even today.

262
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:20,000
So I don't believe it's anything that we have here on Earth as far as the known Earth's governments are concerned.

263
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:22,000
You're convinced this thinks?

264
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:24,000
Absolutely solid odds, yes.

265
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:25,000
Why?

266
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:38,000
Because in some cases they've even bounced bullets off them. In many cases, teenagers out in California a couple of months ago shot at one of these things and heard the ping of the metal before the object took off.

267
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:44,000
What might be there? U.F. all means unidentified flying object.

268
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:55,000
Well, of course we think that it could be from another planet, but we can't prove it. It could be some part of our natural environment of the Earth, which is unknown to our present day science.

269
00:28:55,000 --> 00:29:02,000
If I knew what flying saucers really were, I'd be proud to be Washington as an advisor to the government. I certainly don't know what they are.

270
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:07,000
As we mentioned, the chief air force investigator is Dr. J. Allen Heineck.

271
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:15,000
None of the evidence that I have examined would indicate any proof at all that we are being visited by extraterrestrials.

272
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:18,000
How many other explaining cases are there?

273
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:22,000
Something like 646 out of 10,000.

274
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:27,000
But you're confident there are explanations which just have not yet been discovered, sir?

275
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:38,000
I think there's a whole spectrum of explanations and one should not jump either to saying something is utter bilge of nonsense or jump to the other conclusion that we are being visited.

276
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:43,000
There are probably hypotheses and answers in between.

277
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:48,000
But Keoh tells of a case he knows that convinces him flying saucers exist.

278
00:29:48,000 --> 00:30:04,000
This was a report by the commander of a Navy Super Constellation Transport, which was flying the Atlantic, from Newport, I mean from Europe, to Gander, bringing back Navy crews that have been on duty in the European area.

279
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:16,000
They were flying at 19,000 feet and about 100 miles out of Gander when they saw some lights down and currently only surfs through water very close to it.

280
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:27,000
The captain came back to take a look and immediately these lights spread out very rapidly and disappeared except for one which came straight up toward them and of course increasing in size.

281
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:35,000
And when it got to their level it could be seen as a huge flying disk about 350 feet in diameter.

282
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:43,000
They described it as roughly four times the diameter, four times the wingspan of the conic.

283
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:50,000
This object came at them so rapidly that the commander and everyone in the cockpit thought they were going to be hit head on.

284
00:30:50,000 --> 00:31:03,000
It flipped to one side, passed the wing and came back so swiftly that no one knows whether it merely stopped and reversed or whether it made a lightning like turn and came back.

285
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:09,000
At any rate, within a few moments it was back pacing this Navy transport.

286
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:19,000
It did it for about 10 seconds and then it tilted up and climbed out of sight at a speed of about between two and three max.

287
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:23,000
That was in 1956.

288
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:35,000
I regard it as a special important case because this commander, they were all interrogated by Air Force Intelligence at Gander and later by Naval Intelligence when they got down to Patuxent.

289
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:46,000
Two days later the commander was visited by a scientist from a super secret agency in Washington and that's as far as I'll go to claiming it but you can guess what it was.

290
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:56,000
He had a folder of photographs, not sketches but photographs and he showed these to the commander and the commander said it wasn't just about like this one.

291
00:31:56,000 --> 00:32:08,000
He picked out a photograph of a fine disc and then he asked the scientist, said I had always thought this was nonsense until the other night we were scared to death by this thing.

292
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:16,000
What's going on? And in effect the scientist said thank you commander and picked up these photographs and all that.

293
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:34,000
In an effort to balance this program with all views, I asked the Air Force for a spokesman to present more of the official reaction to UFOs.

294
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:45,000
I was told the Air Force has no spokesman because I was told every time a spokesman is put on the air or in print somebody tries to make the Air Force look silly.

295
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:55,000
Incidentally the CBS television network will present a special program this summer concerning UFOs and the Air Force has named a spokesman for that program.

296
00:32:55,000 --> 00:33:04,000
I asked Lieutenant Colonel Hal Harlan, chief of the broadcasting branch of the Air Force Office of Information, why them and not us.

297
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:15,000
He said they had promised to make the Air Force look good. That may be one of the few times a federal official has openly stated he will help those who make him or them look good.

298
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:23,000
The Air Force did provide me with a 12-page pamphlet concerning their investigations which works under the code name Project Blue Book.

299
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:26,000
From that pamphlet, this statement.

300
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:40,000
To date, the firm conclusions of Project Blue Book are, 1. No unidentified flying object reported, investigated and evaluated by the Air Force has ever given any indication of threat to our national security.

301
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:54,000
2. There has been no evidence submitted to or discovered by the Air Force that sightings categorized as unidentified represent technological developments or principles beyond the range of present-day scientific knowledge.

302
00:33:54,000 --> 00:34:03,000
And 3. There has been no evidence indicating that sightings categorized as unidentified are extraterrestrial vehicles.

303
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:13,000
You'll recall that Al Chop was the information officer in the early 50s for the Air Force and he investigated about a dozen incidents during that time.

304
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:20,000
What does he, personally and as a representative of no organization, what does he think they are?

305
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:39,000
In the early days of this investigation, I was, like most everyone else, I was, I believe that a startling piece of news was eminence that we would find that these things were interplanetary spaceships.

306
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:56,000
And the evidence at that time, at least the eyewitness sightings seemed to point that way and so perhaps it was wishful thinking in a way because man is always intrigued about the possibility of intelligent life on other planets or from other star systems visiting us or,

307
00:34:56,000 --> 00:35:01,000
and perhaps giving us the benefit of a very advanced technology.

308
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:15,000
However, the lack of these things to come to pass over the past 20 years, I am now quite convinced that this is a natural phenomenon of some sort that will continue.

309
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:24,000
And I don't see any end to the controversy of whether they are interplanetary vehicles or not interplanetary vehicles.

310
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:34,000
And I don't think anything can be proved from a scientific standpoint because there is a lack of material substance that can be analyzed.

311
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:50,000
Dr. Bruce Rogers is Professor Emeritus of Mechanical Engineering from the University of Texas and incidentally a member of the Board of Governors of NCAP. What does he think?

312
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:55,000
I mean there's no use of arguing about the matter, let's get some measurements if we can.

313
00:35:55,000 --> 00:36:03,000
We found most university professors in such fields as physics, astronomy and so on extremely reluctant to comment on flying saucers.

314
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:08,000
Even some who told us flatly I don't believe in the things refused to say that on the air.

315
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:15,000
There were several though who felt the public has a right to know how scientifically trained minds regard these UFOs.

316
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:21,000
Such a man is Dr. Tom Hudson, Assistant Professor of Physics at the University of Houston.

317
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:24,000
Again the simple question, what are they?

318
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:36,000
Well certainly out of all of the observations that have been made there some people saw something and I don't know how much more than that you can see.

319
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:46,000
Some of the observations have been made by people who were trained to make observations such as the Deputy Sheriff or in some cases say an airline pilot sees something.

320
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:53,000
Someone else who's a trained observer but does not have a scientific background.

321
00:36:53,000 --> 00:37:09,000
The trouble with trying to then break this further down is that the person who's trying to analyze and discover what this object was that was seen has to take statements from a non-scientific person

322
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:21,000
and extrapolate these statements into what he thinks the scientific explanation of what this individual saw could be.

323
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:25,000
And the problems there are just insurmountable.

324
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:35,000
In fact in any other form of scientific research this would be the, it wouldn't accept such an observation as being an invalid scientific observation.

325
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:40,000
But this is the best you have in this case so you try to go from there.

326
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:45,000
Richard Hall, Assistant Director of NICAP disagrees.

327
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:59,000
A number of astronomers, physicists, chemists, mathematicians, biologists and other trained scientists including engineers have reported you pose.

328
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:02,000
One section of our report will detail their sighting.

329
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:07,000
The Director of Houston's Burke Baker Planetarium is Dr. Arman Iramatige.

330
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:15,000
KPRC's Ray Norton spent quite a bit of time with this astronomer discussing what UFOs may or may not be.

331
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:25,000
Dr. Iramatige gave this answer to Ray's question of what are they and the answer is so complete it may stand as a basic lesson in flying saucer watching.

332
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:30,000
By definition we say UFOs unidentified flying objects.

333
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:42,000
Unidentified means that they must not be known celestial objects or known celestial phenomena or known natural phenomena.

334
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:52,000
And of course in the planetary field, in the astronomical field, we know the celestial objects, what they might be.

335
00:38:52,000 --> 00:39:02,000
Many people report even meteors or bolides, that is very large meteors or fireballs that are seen in the sky.

336
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:10,000
They stream through the sky and sometimes in red or blue or white or green, they're immense fireballs.

337
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:20,000
They're not seen frequently but every now and then they do speak to the sky and they're large objects that strike through the Earth's atmosphere and burn up.

338
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:25,000
And as they burn up, of course we see this tremendous glow. These of course are identifiable.

339
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:36,000
We know and we can by good description and through several observations be able to identify these and therefore they are no longer UFOs.

340
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:44,000
The reason I want to bring this up before answering your question more directly is because we do get a lot of calls.

341
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:46,000
Does the planetarium get calls?

342
00:39:46,000 --> 00:40:01,000
Yes, we do get calls frequently about these things and also the Air Force frequently will call us when they get a report and they want to see if this report might have a celestial explanation, something astronomical.

343
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:13,000
And so I just want to take advantage of this point right now and indicate some of the things that have been seen and are definitely celestial.

344
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:18,000
Another important thing that is seen frequently is the planet Venus.

345
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:24,000
The planet Venus is an extremely brilliant planet in the mornings.

346
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:36,000
Now it can be seen before the sun rises around 5.30 in the morning and it's so extremely brilliant, so much more brilliant than any other star or other celestial object,

347
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:43,000
that people frequently are just surprised at seeing this tremendously bright object in the eastern sky.

348
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:55,000
And since the Earth rotates, it rises in the east and goes higher and higher in the sky until the sun comes up, so they see it move.

349
00:40:55,000 --> 00:41:02,000
And for the moment they might not be aware that the whole sky is moving because of Earth rotation.

350
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:15,000
So this is another object that we frequently get, another object that is referred to as unidentified until they check and find that it could be the planet Venus.

351
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:17,000
There are other celestial objects.

352
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:25,000
A person, for example, noticed that there was a star close to the moon and a few hours later the star was at a different place in the sky with respect to the moon.

353
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:36,000
The reason for this is that the moon revolves around the Earth and over a period of one hour an object will move one Earth diameter away from its previous position.

354
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:44,000
That is, the moon is moving toward the east. The star would move to the west from the moon, one moon diameter every hour.

355
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:51,000
And so these objects are seen to move and again they cannot explain what it is.

356
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:59,000
And of course here's a known object, just a star, and the motion of the moon causes it to move that way.

357
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:06,000
Other objects that people see are satellites such as the Echo 1 and 2 in Pegasus.

358
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:17,000
Some are going in a polar orbit, that is moving roughly north and south, and others east to west direction are vice versa.

359
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:23,000
So these are moving star-like objects, some go rather brilliantly.

360
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:27,000
Are there particular times in the orbit when the sun will catch them and make them blend?

361
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:35,000
Exactly. In fact, that's another thing that makes them strange. They expect to see it lit up from one horizon to the other.

362
00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:42,000
But it might be that a satellite will glow close to the horizon and then blink off because it goes into the Earth's shadow.

363
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:55,000
Others will glow only while they're close to the zenith because they're low enough that only when they are at a high point will the sun's glow reflect on them.

364
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:58,000
And others of course at different portions of the orbit will glow.

365
00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:04,000
So these objects that seem usually will occur only once, it will not blink twice.

366
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:09,000
While its eclipse will be dark, it will brighten and then of course become dark again.

367
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:22,000
So satellites is another celestial phenomenon that's frequently misinterpreted because people do not look up the sky enough and realize what some of the things can be.

368
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:35,000
And of course as we said meteors and bowlides are moving very quickly and there are not too many bowlides, but nevertheless that is frequently reported.

369
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:47,000
Jupiter is a very brilliant one. It does not twinkle. None of the planets when they're relatively high in the sky twinkle only when they're low in a close to the horizon do planets twinkle.

370
00:43:47,000 --> 00:44:04,000
Stars twinkle. So twinkling objects usually are stars and if they're, give a study like they're planets, Jupiter at times because people don't realize that the planet can be so bright is reported as an unknown.

371
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:13,000
Now getting to your initial question, which I avoided, with good reason.

372
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:18,000
What are these UFOs?

373
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:27,000
These that cannot be identified as natural phenomena, either celestial or meteorological, that is a weather type of thing.

374
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:32,000
I might mention before going to this, you see I'm trying to avoid your question.

375
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:45,000
A sun dog is another object that can be seen during the daytime. There's a halo, sometimes two halos around the sun.

376
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:58,000
And sometimes one tiny portion of this halo, 22 or 46 degrees away from the sun, this is a tiny portion of it glows and it may be red or some other color of the rainbow are just white.

377
00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:09,000
And so it appears that these two angles from the sun, it's due to refraction from the high ice particles in the sky.

378
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:14,000
So sometimes these appear as unknown objects.

379
00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:25,000
In other words, you would say that a great percentage of the many thousands of sightings can be contributed to astronomical and celestial phenomena.

380
00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:32,000
Yes. In fact, recently you might have heard of this object that struck a car on Highway 10.

381
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:33,000
That's right.

382
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:37,000
We don't know what it was. We investigated it.

383
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:44,000
We searched through all the areas where the grass was relatively sharp, but there are areas that have cat tails and deep grass.

384
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:48,000
And so the object might have ricocheted into off the road.

385
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:50,000
And so we cannot report on that.

386
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:53,000
But that could have been a meteorite.

387
00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:57,000
And of course it was in hopes that it was that we did this search.

388
00:45:57,000 --> 00:46:11,000
But now once we eliminate all these, and that's where maybe several many thousands of these objects end up as being, we arrive at these that are unidentified.

389
00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:18,000
Really cannot be explained by science today.

390
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:26,000
There was one, for example, two colonels saw they were command pilots working in the Pentagon and it's reported in Project Blue Book.

391
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:32,000
They saw two objects, two Delta Wing objects streamed by them extremely fast.

392
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:36,000
And they knew that the speed of these, they know the Delta wings.

393
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:39,000
They knew the F-86 is perfectly well.

394
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:42,000
And this I think was in 1952.

395
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:45,000
It was during the around three o'clock in the afternoon.

396
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:50,000
And yet they were going towards Salt Lake City over Carson Sink in Nevada.

397
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:55,000
Yet they knew that nothing, the no airplane could have gone at that speed.

398
00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:58,000
They saw no canopy or tail on it.

399
00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:01,000
This was going at a tremendous speed by their plane.

400
00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:03,000
They worked for the Pentagon.

401
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:08,000
They knew perfectly well how to recognize anything that the United States has in the air.

402
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:14,000
These two objects streamed by them extremely fast speed and took a slight bank and then disappeared.

403
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:20,000
There were no known F-86s or other possible airplanes that could have been that close to them.

404
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:22,000
This is a UFO, a valid UFO.

405
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:25,000
At least it cannot be identified.

406
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:29,000
And then the question that you asked me is difficult to answer.

407
00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:34,000
We don't know what celestial phenomena can explain.

408
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:37,000
Certainly we know of no celestial phenomena at this time.

409
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:38,000
Science does not know.

410
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:42,000
That could explain these types of sightings.

411
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:50,000
And it's for this reason that no one wishes to be, to comment on as to what they could be.

412
00:47:50,000 --> 00:48:02,000
Scientists don't know people who are highly scientifically trained and should certainly identify the known objects that it could possibly be,

413
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:06,000
will not say what it was, they know what they saw, and they describe what they saw.

414
00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:15,000
And certainly this is the reason that right now the Secretary of the Air Force is being prodded into establishing a committee,

415
00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:19,000
possibly of civilians, to study these phenomena, what they are.

416
00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:26,000
Of course I can't say what they are, all he can say is that these people must see something,

417
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:29,000
and that they're not creating a hoax or a lion.

418
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:33,000
They're seeing something and we just can't define what it is.

419
00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:44,000
Finally we asked our favorite question of a man who had seen something that cannot be explained.

420
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:47,000
Chief Deputy Billy McCoy, what was it?

421
00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:51,000
Now I have no idea what it was.

422
00:48:51,000 --> 00:49:00,000
I affirm believe that it wasn't something from this herd.

423
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:14,000
I don't believe that the United States government or any government on this herd could have a craft like we saw

424
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:22,000
and could have kept it from the public this long.

425
00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:28,000
I don't believe that if they had a craft, I do believe that if they had a craft,

426
00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:39,000
that it certainly wouldn't have been down in the area at night that we saw it in, just moving around.

427
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:46,000
Still confused? On the next section of Spectrum 95, coming up in a few minutes,

428
00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:51,000
we'll discuss some of the theories and the charges of Air Force secrecy.

429
00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:54,000
But now let's pause for the news.

430
00:49:54,000 --> 00:50:09,000
Spectrum 95, Part 3, the Flying Sorcer Flap. Energy pockets and little green men.

431
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:21,000
Somehow long ago the conception of little green men became attached to flying saucers.

432
00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:25,000
The effect is more serious than it sounds on the surface,

433
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:31,000
because many persons fearing ridicule by their friends will spot an object and refuse to report it,

434
00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:36,000
because jokers will say, did you see any little green men?

435
00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:41,000
Don Burlenter is a freelance science writer who makes his home in Washington.

436
00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:47,000
But most of his time is spent away from the typewriter and out as a volunteer for NICAP.

437
00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:50,000
He recently talked about men from other worlds.

438
00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:59,000
As the reports of the green men came to UFOs, the great majority of these reports are in the hoax category.

439
00:50:59,000 --> 00:51:05,000
As the major mentioned, the late George Adamski made quite a stir some years ago,

440
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:11,000
writing books about his fanciful trips to various planets in flying saucers

441
00:51:11,000 --> 00:51:14,000
and the golden-haired space beings that he had met.

442
00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:19,000
He investigated this man quite thoroughly because of all the stir that he created

443
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:25,000
and discovered that most of his claimed background was completely fraudulent.

444
00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:30,000
He claimed at one time to be an astronomer from Mount Palomar.

445
00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:35,000
Now this is rather impressive on the face of it, but it turns out that he was located at Mount Palomar

446
00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:41,000
and he had a telescope, but the telescope was parked right outside his hamburger stand.

447
00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:46,000
This is unfortunately the sort of thing we do run into.

448
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:54,000
However, there is at least one case of a reported occupant of UFO, which seems quite substantial.

449
00:51:54,000 --> 00:52:00,000
The Air Force agrees with us that the case is definitely not explainable as anything conventional.

450
00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:07,000
It occurred in April of 64 in Socorro, New Mexico, where a highly respected police officer

451
00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:13,000
who had had quite a bit of experience tracking meteors with the New Mexico Institute of Meteoretics

452
00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:23,000
reported seeing two small suited occupants near a UFO, which after it left imprints in the ground

453
00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:29,000
and scorch marks on the mesquite bushes and the earth.

454
00:52:29,000 --> 00:52:35,000
Dr. Heineck, the Air Force investigator, was on the scene and our man was on the scene.

455
00:52:35,000 --> 00:52:41,000
And when Dr. Heineck left, he admitted openly that he was more puzzled than when he had arrived.

456
00:52:41,000 --> 00:52:48,000
So this is perhaps the only case where an occupant of one of these craft has been reported,

457
00:52:48,000 --> 00:52:51,000
which has really stood up under investigation.

458
00:52:51,000 --> 00:52:53,000
Could there be life elsewhere in this universe?

459
00:52:53,000 --> 00:52:55,000
Armand Iromadeg.

460
00:52:55,000 --> 00:53:02,000
It's my assumption and I think I'm right that it's not beyond the realm of possibility

461
00:53:02,000 --> 00:53:10,000
that there is some form of life on another planet in our galaxy or around another star, another sun.

462
00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:12,000
Is this right?

463
00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:15,000
I think that is quite possible.

464
00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:23,000
In fact, it's probable that among the billions of stars in our own galaxy, there would be many.

465
00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:25,000
That would have planets.

466
00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:28,000
In fact, many of the stars have other stars going around them.

467
00:53:28,000 --> 00:53:31,000
And these are called binary stars.

468
00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:41,000
So it's not at all impossible that in the same fashion in which such a tremendous number of stars do have other bodies going around them.

469
00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:48,000
These other bodies could be totally inert, that is, planets that go around them.

470
00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:55,000
And these planets in all probabilities somewhere in our galaxy, among these billions of stars,

471
00:53:55,000 --> 00:54:02,000
certainly it's within the realm of possibility that there could be life on some of these planets

472
00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:10,000
that have evolved through normal changes of temperature as these planets would form.

473
00:54:10,000 --> 00:54:22,000
One of the real puzzlers in UFO investigating history has been several instances of radioactivity found after a sighting.

474
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:24,000
Major Donald Keyhole.

475
00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:26,000
Some of those there is no question about.

476
00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:28,000
They've been down.

477
00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:33,000
In one case, the ground was found highly radioactive, one of these things touched for a few moments.

478
00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:39,000
This was up in Virginia about a year and two months ago.

479
00:54:39,000 --> 00:54:44,000
I was reading those reports which, well, I first heard that, I thought it was nonsense.

480
00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:48,000
But then two DuPont company engineers, one of them was Dieter Countess, and checked them.

481
00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:50,000
They said it was very hard.

482
00:54:50,000 --> 00:54:52,000
Dr. Bruce Rogers.

483
00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:54,000
What could cause this?

484
00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:56,000
That's the thing that I'd like to know.

485
00:54:56,000 --> 00:55:03,000
I mean, if we could tell what caused this, if we could, what, this, if there was radioactivity,

486
00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:10,000
if we could, why do we think we might be able to get a start on what kind of a power plant these things have

487
00:55:10,000 --> 00:55:13,000
if there is such a thing as a flying saucer?

488
00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:15,000
Al Chow.

489
00:55:15,000 --> 00:55:18,000
Here we're making conjecture now that there are solid objects.

490
00:55:18,000 --> 00:55:21,000
I'm not sure anymore that there are.

491
00:55:21,000 --> 00:55:27,000
I'd say a phenomena, it could be a source of light or it could be energy in the atmosphere.

492
00:55:27,000 --> 00:55:36,000
And I don't know very much about that, but some of the scientists feel that there may be some blobs of pure energy floating around.

493
00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:42,000
Maybe perhaps there's a function of something that comes from the sun.

494
00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:44,000
Dr. Tom Hudson.

495
00:55:44,000 --> 00:55:47,000
Perhaps.

496
00:55:47,000 --> 00:55:53,000
I don't know what you can say is that maybe, I think that geologically there are some other forms of energy.

497
00:55:53,000 --> 00:56:00,000
I don't know the form or context it takes, but I have heard of the concept of ball lightning,

498
00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:08,000
which is a glowing circular ball of some type of plasma that may have been observed in our atmosphere.

499
00:56:08,000 --> 00:56:16,000
But what it is, what causes it, where it goes, I don't think that it's generally known or accepted any particular theory.

500
00:56:16,000 --> 00:56:22,000
As you heard earlier, one of the charges that Major Donald Kehoe has leveled against the Air Force is secrecy.

501
00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:24,000
All of them are wrong.

502
00:56:24,000 --> 00:56:30,000
Not one single man is right or else these things are real.

503
00:56:30,000 --> 00:56:34,000
And there is secrecy and the fact you're being withheld.

504
00:56:34,000 --> 00:56:43,000
Major, do you believe that the Pentagon knows about whatever the truth here is, that the President also must inevitably know about it?

505
00:56:43,000 --> 00:56:49,000
And therefore the President is at the top, the one who is responsible for not letting the public have the facts.

506
00:56:49,000 --> 00:56:52,000
Can there be any other suggestion in what you say?

507
00:56:52,000 --> 00:57:02,000
I don't believe it's absolutely certain that the President has all these details, because I remember back to when President Truman called for a briefing

508
00:57:02,000 --> 00:57:09,000
during some excitement during his second administration, I believe it was.

509
00:57:09,000 --> 00:57:17,000
He had known nothing about it except what he read in the newspapers, according to what this intelligence associate told me.

510
00:57:17,000 --> 00:57:22,000
And this captain, it was Captain Edward Ruppelhead of the Project at that time.

511
00:57:22,000 --> 00:57:32,000
He gave the President a thorough briefing and said that they didn't find any definite proof that these were or were not space devices.

512
00:57:32,000 --> 00:57:36,000
They certainly didn't see any evidence of hostility.

513
00:57:36,000 --> 00:57:40,000
Therefore they weren't too much concerned.

514
00:57:40,000 --> 00:57:48,000
That was however doing their work concerned because there was a terrific outbreak of fighting at that time and they were all over the, the headlines all over the country.

515
00:57:48,000 --> 00:57:55,000
Since the Air Force would not provide us with a spokesman to answer this charge, we had to look elsewhere for an answer.

516
00:57:55,000 --> 00:57:59,000
We want to make this report as objective and unbiased as possible.

517
00:57:59,000 --> 00:58:11,000
Well, a nightcap provided the answer, a tape recording from 1961 when the Air Force did have a spokesman, then Major William Coleman, who had this to say about the secrecy charges.

518
00:58:11,000 --> 00:58:15,000
Again, let me remind you that this was five years ago.

519
00:58:15,000 --> 00:58:21,000
There's no truth to the charges and allegations that the Air Force is withholding information from the public on this subject.

520
00:58:21,000 --> 00:58:30,000
We do in some cases withhold the names of the people involved in the sightings because it would attract the idle curiosity of sensation seekers.

521
00:58:30,000 --> 00:58:40,000
In some limited instances we will withhold information on our investigative techniques because we use these techniques to evaluate other intelligence information.

522
00:58:40,000 --> 00:58:50,000
And finally, we withhold information in some limited instances because we could possibly reveal sensitive areas within our air defense system.

523
00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:56,000
In any case, withholding of information is done for strictly legitimate security reasons.

524
00:58:56,000 --> 00:59:03,000
Al Chopp was among the first to take part in Air Force investigations. We asked him about the secrecy charge.

525
00:59:03,000 --> 00:59:13,000
Well, I don't think that the Air Force does put out the sightings on a regular basis, and I don't know the reasoning why they don't.

526
00:59:13,000 --> 00:59:23,000
I know we did not when I was with the project. The person making inquiry had to be specific about which sighting he wanted the details on.

527
00:59:23,000 --> 00:59:26,000
If he could do this, we would give him the details.

528
00:59:26,000 --> 00:59:27,000
All of the details?

529
00:59:27,000 --> 00:59:32,000
All of the details pertaining to a particular sighting that he had to identify.

530
00:59:32,000 --> 00:59:42,000
However, most of the sightings in those days at least were made by pilots and military personnel.

531
00:59:42,000 --> 00:59:47,000
And of course, the general public didn't know they had been made or reported.

532
00:59:47,000 --> 00:59:53,000
But I don't think the Air Force is deliberately withholding information.

533
00:59:53,000 --> 00:59:58,000
I think the information is not forthcoming simply because the Air Force doesn't have it.

534
00:59:58,000 --> 01:00:05,000
I don't think that the Air Force had the answer to this. In the evening, they would be more than happy to scratch it off their books and explain it to the public.

535
01:00:05,000 --> 01:00:11,000
Dr. Tom Hudson from the University of Houston then made this logical observation.

536
01:00:11,000 --> 01:00:17,000
I can say no advantage to the Air Force to withhold information.

537
01:00:17,000 --> 01:00:28,000
If it were a foreign country's device, then the Air Force could probably get money to build one of their own from Congress if they could show that somebody else had one of these.

538
01:00:28,000 --> 01:00:31,000
If we didn't get one, we were going to be behind.

539
01:00:31,000 --> 01:00:43,000
If it were from outer space, well, we could perhaps get more money in the space budget to make contact with these alien beings and look at all of the scientific advancement they could provide us.

540
01:00:43,000 --> 01:00:49,000
All the money we would save about taking advantages of their progress.

541
01:00:49,000 --> 01:00:57,000
Our examination of the flying saucer flap has been, by necessity, a brief one, and we only skim the surface of officials.

542
01:00:57,000 --> 01:01:04,000
But in all fairness, it should be pointed out that we did not encounter any Air Force secrecy in our investigation.

543
01:01:04,000 --> 01:01:11,000
We did note several curious quirks that, in my opinion, could be changed to the betterment of all concerned.

544
01:01:11,000 --> 01:01:18,000
First, for information on Project Blue Book, we call the project's headquarters at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in Dayton, Ohio.

545
01:01:18,000 --> 01:01:25,000
They were cordial, but when I said I am a newsman, Project Blue Book referred me immediately to their information officer.

546
01:01:25,000 --> 01:01:35,000
This, I found out in a moment, was not at Wright-Patterson, where the investigations are being conducted, but at the Pentagon in Washington, D.C., nearly 400 miles away.

547
01:01:36,000 --> 01:01:43,000
Not even at the Pentagon is there a Project Blue Book officer, but the reports are disseminated through the Air Force Information Office.

548
01:01:43,000 --> 01:01:54,000
Since almost every Air Force base in the world has its own staff of information officers, this seems a strange departure from the normal, especially because of the high interest of this project.

549
01:01:54,000 --> 01:01:59,000
The Air Force did provide me with their Project Blue Book, which was a disappointment.

550
01:01:59,000 --> 01:02:07,000
It's only 12 pages long. Of those, one page is devoted to listing those materials which the Air Force no longer has available.

551
01:02:07,000 --> 01:02:13,000
One page is a list of suggested reading material on astronomy, physics, and UFOs.

552
01:02:13,000 --> 01:02:20,000
Incidentally, this may be part of the bad blood between Nikeap and the Air Force, because Donald Keeho's books are not listed.

553
01:02:20,000 --> 01:02:27,000
Two pages of Project Blue Book are given over to sightings of meteors, and the last page is blank.

554
01:02:27,000 --> 01:02:38,000
The seven remaining pages of Project Blue Book are a description of the Air Force's program and a statistical summary, but no specifics, on UFOs since 1947.

555
01:02:38,000 --> 01:02:49,000
In comparison, Nikeap's book entitled The UFO Evidence is nearly 200 pages long, contains 200,000 words and many specific examples.

556
01:02:49,000 --> 01:02:53,000
The Air Force's free Nikeap's cost $5.

557
01:02:54,000 --> 01:02:57,000
More in a moment.

558
01:02:57,000 --> 01:03:22,000
What can be done to find out the origin, whether earth-locked or extraterrestrial, of these mysteries?

559
01:03:22,000 --> 01:03:35,000
There are several plans, some reasonable, some, well, for instance, a retired Army Major named Wayne Ahos says he is negotiating to place observers in the 600-foot-high Space Needle at the Seattle World's Fair site.

560
01:03:35,000 --> 01:03:47,000
This former Army Intelligence Officer says he plans to place two spotters armed with telescopes or binoculars on both sides of the tower and keep them on duty night and day to look for flying saucers.

561
01:03:47,000 --> 01:03:51,000
Is the Air Force currently doing a competent job of investigating?

562
01:03:51,000 --> 01:03:55,000
Congressman George Miller, Chairman of the House Space Sciences Committee says yes.

563
01:03:55,000 --> 01:04:02,000
Congressman Mendel Rivers, Chairman of the House Armed Services Committee says yes, and this rules out a congressional hearing on the matter.

564
01:04:02,000 --> 01:04:05,000
So we ask Arman Iromadege.

565
01:04:06,000 --> 01:04:23,000
Should I think that the Air Force is being concerned with the defense of our country and certainly wishing to advance our scientific knowledge as much as possible of anything that can possibly be seen in the sky?

566
01:04:23,000 --> 01:04:30,000
That branch of government that could best handle this investigation.

567
01:04:30,000 --> 01:04:47,000
However, I do think that possibly a committee at congressional level, that is possibly appointed by the President or Congress, should have the right to, would actually be the body that would determine policy, overall policy.

568
01:04:47,000 --> 01:04:56,000
And the Air Force should be the one to carry out the studies. They're the best qualified. They certainly have the personnel, and I think they're the ones that should do it.

569
01:04:56,000 --> 01:05:00,000
Dr. Rogers of the University of Texas feels differently.

570
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:06,000
Do you think another government agency besides the Air Force would be better qualified to investigate?

571
01:05:06,000 --> 01:05:09,000
Personally, I'd rather not have the government in it at all.

572
01:05:09,000 --> 01:05:12,000
You think private organizations such as NK?

573
01:05:12,000 --> 01:05:16,000
Private organizations, because as soon as you get into a government, then you've got politics.

574
01:05:16,000 --> 01:05:18,000
How old is Trump?

575
01:05:18,000 --> 01:05:24,000
I think the Air Force is doing everything it can and everything that is possible.

576
01:05:24,000 --> 01:05:39,000
You have to remember you're dealing with citing reports. You're not dealing with objects or something that's a physical matter that you can hold in your hand or analyze or put under a microscope, a measure.

577
01:05:39,000 --> 01:05:44,000
These are things that scientists need to do in order to tell you definitely what these things are.

578
01:05:44,000 --> 01:05:58,000
I think on the basis of investigating citing reports verbal from people and the scattering of still pictures, the Air Force is doing everything humanly possible.

579
01:05:58,000 --> 01:06:06,000
And they certainly are doing it in a serious vein. I don't think they mean to ridicule anybody, but it's kind of an impossible task.

580
01:06:06,000 --> 01:06:08,000
Tom Hudson.

581
01:06:08,000 --> 01:06:22,000
My own opinion is they're doing as good as anyone else and probably better than most would do because of the vast physical facilities that are already in place that they can call on to track an object if it makes a radar pattern,

582
01:06:22,000 --> 01:06:38,000
or they can call on a fast fighter to go up and see what this object is or if there's an object in this particular point in the sky that's been observed and no other federal agency could do this without going through somebody.

583
01:06:38,000 --> 01:06:42,000
Here's how the Air Force investigated the Brasoria County episode.

584
01:06:42,000 --> 01:06:49,000
Major Leeds come down from Ellington and he brought an artist with him.

585
01:06:49,000 --> 01:07:02,000
We went over to that area. They drawed a whole sketch out of the area, but everything that was there through the craft as we described it and the facilities that we described it.

586
01:07:02,000 --> 01:07:17,000
They took a bunch of radiological readings over there. They didn't mind in fact. We had had a couple of showers of rain since then.

587
01:07:17,000 --> 01:07:33,000
The area was scrutinized very thoroughly by them and they took statements from Mr. Goode and myself.

588
01:07:33,000 --> 01:07:44,000
This was on the floor there to ride Patterson, a professor hiding in Carl Meade on the telephone. I spent probably an hour on the phone with him going over all this.

589
01:07:44,000 --> 01:07:54,000
He was trying to link all of the degrees in our position and how we saw it.

590
01:07:54,000 --> 01:08:05,000
This has been the last I've heard of them, but those people treat us very nice.

591
01:08:05,000 --> 01:08:22,000
We're just as concerned about this thing as we were and I couldn't ask for any more cooperation or any better investigation than I know of.

592
01:08:22,000 --> 01:08:31,000
The Air Force plans to delve into its investigation even more thoroughly. Dr. Heindig says he will pick a score of unexplained cases for closer scrutiny.

593
01:08:31,000 --> 01:08:43,000
I picked some 20 cases. Nothing particular about 20 is a number, but just I thought let's see what are some that have not been explained and which have possible scientific fader in them.

594
01:08:43,000 --> 01:08:48,000
And I think those I would recommend that they be looked at quite closely.

595
01:08:48,000 --> 01:08:55,000
The flying saucer flap has flapped so loudly recently that the secretary of the Air Force has been stirred to action.

596
01:08:55,000 --> 01:09:03,000
A civilian board to investigate the Air Force's investigations in an attempt to determine whether charges by Kehoe and others are valid.

597
01:09:03,000 --> 01:09:12,000
There's a lot of discussion this morning, Mr. Secretary, about a civilian board that would pick out some of the more interesting cases to investigate. How's that going to work?

598
01:09:12,000 --> 01:09:22,000
The Air Force has a civilian scientific advisory board. We've had a panel of that board examine the way that we've been handling these investigations and they say they're quite satisfied,

599
01:09:22,000 --> 01:09:33,000
but they think that there may be some more scientific data to gain by making an investigation in further depth by some such panel and I'm certainly willing to consider that.

600
01:09:33,000 --> 01:09:36,000
I think it may be very desirable to do.

601
01:09:36,000 --> 01:09:39,000
Does that mean you're going to go ahead with a civilian group?

602
01:09:39,000 --> 01:09:43,000
We have already and I think we will continue it and perhaps expand it.

603
01:09:43,000 --> 01:09:52,000
A final observation on this flying saucer flap of 20 years. When I contacted the Air Force Information Office while investigating the charges by Major Kehoe,

604
01:09:52,000 --> 01:10:02,000
I confronted Lieutenant Colonel Harlan of the Pentagon with Kehoe's statements. Harlan said that Kehoe is a private citizen and entitled to his views like everybody else.

605
01:10:02,000 --> 01:10:10,000
Kehoe is not only a private citizen. He heads the largest private organization in the country investigating these reported sightings.

606
01:10:10,000 --> 01:10:16,000
In addition, he is a retired military officer, a pilot, and a firm believer in flying saucers.

607
01:10:16,000 --> 01:10:24,000
Perhaps he has gone too far in stating without sufficient scientific evidence that these things are from outer space,

608
01:10:24,000 --> 01:10:31,000
but it seems the nation might be better served if this private organization and the Air Force were to patch up their differences,

609
01:10:31,000 --> 01:10:36,000
bury these swamp gas, so to speak, and consolidate their efforts.

610
01:10:36,000 --> 01:10:41,000
Such a president has been set with the Civil Air Patrol, again with civil defense.

611
01:10:41,000 --> 01:10:52,000
NYCAP might be more useful if the Air Force were to brief NYCAP members on how to investigate sightings, the questions to ask, official reports to submit.

612
01:10:52,000 --> 01:11:08,000
A study of these things by 5,000 volunteers all over the nation reporting facts to a hardcore of top flight scientists and engineers could do no harm in such an investigation would certainly provide more information than say a congressional hearing, for instance.

613
01:11:08,000 --> 01:11:16,000
The differences between NYCAP and the Air Force seem to be surmountable, with only a little compromise on the part of each.

614
01:11:16,000 --> 01:11:26,000
This is Al Moffat, KPRC News reporting on the Flying Saucer Flap.